[Neochick]

found this in the New Scientist archives. thought you lot might like reading it


Goth subculture may protect vulnerable children
14 April 2006
NewScientist.com news service
by Gaia Vince


About half of teenage goths have deliberately harmed themselves or attempted suicide, a new study suggests. But joining the modern subculture - which grew out of the 1980s gothic rock scene - may actually protect vulnerable children, researchers say.

The study followed 1258 young people who were interviewed at ages 11, 13, 15 and 19. It found that of those who considered themselves goths, 53% had self-harmed and 47% had tried to commit suicide. The average prevalence of self-harm among young people in the UK is 7% to 14%. Self-harm includes behaviours such as cutting or burning oneself. And about 6% of young people admit suicide attempts. Some studies suggest the incidence is rising in society.

Researchers at University of Glasgow found that while most self-harmers started the practice at age 12 to 13, they did not become goths until they were a couple of years older, on average.

"One common suggestion is they may be copying subcultural icons or peers [when they self-harm], but our study found that more young people reported self-harm before, rather than after, becoming a goth. This suggests that young people with a tendency to self-harm are attracted to the goth subculture," says Robert Young, who led the study.
Quick fix

"Rather than posing a risk, it's also possible that by belonging to the goth subculture, young people are gaining valuable social and emotional support from their peers." But he cautions: "However, the study was based on small numbers and replication is needed to confirm our results." Only 25 participants felt strongly associated with goth culture.

Self-harming, Young says, is a behaviour that people often employ as a mechanism to deal with negative emotions. It may be used as a quick-fix. "Some physiological studies suggest, or are compatible with the theory that endorphins [brain chemicals that produce a feeling of well-being] are released after episodes of self-harm," he told New Scientist.

Just 2% of the adolescents in the study identified with goth culture, although 8% said they had identified with it at some point in their lives. But it is a strongly non-violent and accepting subculture, which teens may find offers a supportive environment.

Michael van Beinum, a psychiatrist for children and adolescents, who advised on the study, agrees: "For some young people with mental health problems, a goth subculture may be attractive as it may allow them to find a community within which it may be easier for their distress to be understood."

The 1980s goth culture grew out of the post-Punk movement and underwent a revival in the mid-1990s. Central to goth belief is the black aesthetic - taking icons that society regards as evil, such as skull imagery, and making them beautiful.

Journal reference: British Medical Journal (vol 332, p 909)

[ChildofPandora]

Does anyone else feel a sense of impending doom? I feel as if I just read: "The fastest way into Goth culture is to self-harm, and then you'll stop and have friends and support, etc, etc, etc."

Young people are more likely to self-harm because they have NO coping skills.

I don't know, I'm cranky today. Really cranky.

[Malfecious]

it's 'reports' like this that make the subculture out to bea bunch of self harming suicidal misfits, who can't get along with anyone, let alone function in societey.

isn't that what emo is? i don't really know, because so few actually don't know it's a subculture, they are sheep following the latest fad.

they didn't bloody interview me did they? and i've never been suicidal/self harmed....

fail

[cybele13]

I can kind of see how this is possible.

I was very attracted to the subculture when I was about 13. I never hurt myself and it never even crossed my mind to think about suicide. The punks and goths at my school were a very accepting bunch and I found protection when I was with them. Until I became friends with these people, I was picked on mercilessly all the way through my freshman year of high school. Once I started hanging out with the "weirdos and freaks," I was pretty much left alone. The majority of students were afraid of the punks...and the goths could be downright scary.

Funny thing is, I had one English teacher who was a leftover flower child from the 60s and this guy went to bat for us every chance he got because he thought it was so cool that there were kids out there still willing to rebel. But, I really can't remember a time when anyone but other students had a problem with us as a collective.

[Mack]

Hey guys!

I just read an interesting article, and I would like you to read it as well and start a debate over it.

http://www.newscient...e-children.html

[Drac Teaninthae]

I believe that some people do tend to use the subculture as a shelter when undergoing emotional stress that may or may not have come from physical abuse.

But then again, I don't view them as part of the goth subculture - I believe that, if you're really goth, you stay goth.

I don't shun people that want help, but, rather, I embrace them.

Getting back to the point, I think that it can be a retreat if you feel the world has forsaken you, but the ones that use it only as a retreat or a way to get back at their parents aren't really goths.

So, technically... I do believe that the subculture can help, although the ones that use it for help aren't necessarily goth.

[cybele13]

Drac Teaninthae, on Nov 13 2007, 11:55 PM, said:

I don't shun people that want help, but, rather, I embrace them.

Getting back to the point, I think that it can be a retreat if you feel the world has forsaken you, but the ones that use it only as a retreat or a way to get back at their parents aren't really goths.

The study is correct in saying that we're an accepting lot. I believe it that most of us help our own and we embrace those who, for whatever reason, are considered outcasts by everyone else.

Thing is, when I was a wee youngling, though I never had any instances of "self-harm," nor did I ever contemplate such, but I did really start to delve into the subculture partially to piss my parents off. If you're saying you became goth as a pre-teen or a teen and making your parents freak out was not at least a happy side effect, then I will call you a liar.

Still, 24 years on, I'm still here, no more and no less a goth than I've ever been and no more or less one compared to anyone else.

[Drac Teaninthae]

With all respect, you don't really know me, nor do you know my relationship with my parents.

I never did feel a need to piss anyone in my family off - I became goth because I felt that I identified with the subculture. It is, essentially, part of who I am.

Believe me, if I wanted to piss them off I'd tell them about my sexual preferences.

And that I will hide as long as possible.

But yes, we are a very accepting bunch.

Or, at least, we're supposed to be.

[Mack]

Drac Teaninthae, on Nov 14 2007, 12:55 AM, said:

I believe that some people do tend to use the subculture as a shelter when undergoing emotional stress that may or may not have come from physical abuse.

But then again, I don't view them as part of the goth subculture - I believe that, if you're really goth, you stay goth.

I don't shun people that want help, but, rather, I embrace them.

Getting back to the point, I think that it can be a retreat if you feel the world has forsaken you, but the ones that use it only as a retreat or a way to get back at their parents aren't really goths.

So, technically... I do believe that the subculture can help, although the ones that use it for help aren't necessarily goth.

I have to say that I rather agree with the article out of own personal experience.

I admit, before I became goth, before I was involved in the scene, I was a nobody. Nobody did call me by my first name.

I found a home in the scene. And I am still here, although I am not no Nobody any more. The scene, the people, they helped me understand myself, to find my identity.

I hope that one day I'll have a chance to give back what was given me.

[cybele13]

Mack, on Nov 14 2007, 12:19 AM, said:

The scene, the people, they helped me understand myself, to find my identity.

I hope that one day I'll have a chance to give back what was given me.

The beautiful thing about this is that there are so many people in this world - goth, non-goth, whatever - who will never know the peace and satisfaction of finding his or her identity like this.

Mack, just from the short time you've been here, I can tell that giving back in this way probably won't be a problem for you.

[Drac Teaninthae]

Although I do identify myself as goth, I'm not so much involved in the community - I'm a loner.

I'm actually the only goth that I know.

I find the art of death to be beautiful, and I find strength in that.

That's how I find that I belong.

It's a bit tragic that none of my very few friends can really understand me, but that's how life is.

[Mack]

Well, Drac, you are a part of this online - community now, aren't you?

[Drac Teaninthae]

Mack, on Nov 13 2007, 08:34 PM, said:

Well, Drac, you are a part of this online - community now, aren't you?

I suppose so.

And it seems to be going well so far.

We'll just have to see if I stick with it.

[cybele13]

Drac Teaninthae, on Nov 14 2007, 12:38 AM, said:

We'll just have to see if I stick with it.

Ah ha! You're one of "those" types.

"Good night Wesley. Good job. I'll most likely kill you in the morning."

(don't mind me...wayyyyy past my bedtime, but I'm an insomniac and it makes me crazy sometimes...)

[Drac Teaninthae]

cybele13, on Nov 13 2007, 08:40 PM, said:

Ah ha! You're one of "those" types.

"Good night Wesley. Good job. I'll most likely kill you in the morning."

(don't mind me...wayyyyy past my bedtime, but I'm an insomniac and it makes me crazy sometimes...)

That's one of my favorite movies.

I used to be an insomniac. But guess who has new medication?!

...

Me. That's who.

So no more insomnia.

[Mack]

Ha! You are all weak!

You can sleep when you are dead!

Oh, and heretic: Thanks for that vote of confidence and that compliment.

[Aeresis_dea]

I agree with the article. Finally finding out that I belonged somewhere, helped a lot. Discovering the gothic culture and finding my place within it, helped me like myself more, and subsequently, I finally became happy in my own skin.

[keturavamp]

cybele13, on Nov 13 2007, 11:04 PM, said:

Thing is, when I was a wee youngling, though I never had any instances of "self-harm," nor did I ever contemplate such, but I did really start to delve into the subculture partially to piss my parents off. If you're saying you became goth as a pre-teen or a teen and making your parents freak out was not at least a happy side effect, then I will call you a liar.

sorry cybele. i love you, but im going to disagree here.
i never did it to piss off my mom. she had no problems whatsoever with anything i wore, or listened to, because she knew that there could be far more bad things i could be doing. style was just an expression of personality and she was ok with it. and ive always been the type of person to try and do things to make my mother HAPPY, not the opposite.

ive always hated the stereotype that all teenagers are like that.

[Heretic]

*merges topic with previous, identical thread; points to search link at the top of the page*

Mack, on Nov 13 2007, 10:47 PM, said:

Oh, and heretic: Thanks for that vote of confidence and that compliment.

Was there something I said in another thread? I believe Cybele's comment earlier in this thread is what you may have had in mind.

By the way folks, I think Cybele was commenting on the origins of her own interest in the subculture. I don't believe she was saying that rebellion was the norm for everyone who gravitates towards the Gothic subculture.


- Heretic

[Mack]

Sorry, heretic, I ment cybele... Gee, was I confused yesterday...